Fernando Torres

[1fergal]

What a man he is, in a team struggling this year he still has 10 goals in 10 appearances. Surely the best striker in the world. 1 chance today and buried it sublimely, it was a great goal superb technique on the volley. I hope he is here for a long long time.

[Benny-Noon]

He is the best striker in the World, without a shadow of a doubt.

Just a shame that we've been decimated by injuries so far really. We've not had a full-strength squad to pick from yet this season and I'm pretty sur we haven't played a game without at least 3 of the first-team squad being injured. ****** insane. No team can be expected to perform under those restraints.

[Jannno]

Originally Posted by Benny-Noon

Just a shame that we've been decimated by injuries so far really. We've not had a full-strength squad to pick from yet this season and I'm pretty sur we haven't played a game without at least 3 of the first-team squad being injured. ****** insane. No team can be expected to perform under those restraints.

Rep for being rational amidst the panicky madness

[Greenscouse]

Originally Posted by Benny-Noon

He is the best striker in the World, without a shadow of a doubt.

Just a shame that we've been decimated by injuries so far really. We've not had a full-strength squad to pick from yet this season and I'm pretty sur we haven't played a game without at least 3 of the first-team squad being injured. ****** insane. No team can be expected to perform under those restraints.

Agreed, rep for good analysis

YNWA

[Pedagogue]

We had a near enough full strength teams at the start of the season but still managed to contrive ignominious defeats at Spurs and at home to Villa.

It's a mess guys, and it's a squad game at the highest levels and has been for years going back to the 70s.

It's our trench we've dug, now let's get ourra of it by playing intelligent football....no excuses.

Roll on Weds and lets see what we're made of

[Ngoginho]

With him in our team, anything is still possible this season.

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by Benny-Noon

He is the best striker in the World, without a shadow of a doubt.

Just a shame that we've been decimated by injuries so far really. We've not had a full-strength squad to pick from yet this season and I'm pretty sur we haven't played a game without at least 3 of the first-team squad being injured. ****** insane. No team can be expected to perform under those restraints.

with the team already that decimated it just makes the decision to sub Yossi even more baffling tbh

[Mikeredz]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

with the team already that decimated it just makes the decision to sub Yossi even more baffling tbh

Whats your thoughts on all the stuff mate your the same as me as many are that taking yossi off what was rafa thinking then it can't be all down to money and the owners?

[Alon1]

it didnt look like benayoun was having a good day to be honest; it,s more the gesture ot throwing the towel when there was still hope; i would imagine all the players in the pitch did see it that way too

[blaze26]

we have tured into the same team that he left few years ago ie athletic madrid! we've become a 2 man team and with gerrard out the picture at moment a 1 man team! so much pressure for a young man to take on board! thats exactly why he left madrid because the fans and everyone expected so much from him! hope we're not doing the same!

crying out rafa and owners get someone else to take the burdon off this young mans shoulders!
its bad when we have to rely on a star player whose not even fit!

[liverpoolforme]

love this man! scores 10 goals and all of them have meaning not just adding goals to big leads-

1-stoke first goal of game 3 points
2-villa lost game but got us back in it!
3-bolton-equalised bolton-1point
4/5-westham- took the lead twice against west ham 3 points
6/7/8- put us into the lead twice v hull and finished them of 3 points!
9-wins the game aganinst the mancs 3 points
10-lost but equalised v fuhlam.

so by my calculations torres has no meaningless goals this season (hull one at a strech i suppose...) and has won a total of 13 out of our 18 points!!! an incredible man

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by Mikeredz

Whats your thoughts on all the stuff mate your the same as me as many are that taking yossi off what was rafa thinking then it can't be all down to money and the owners?

yesterday was a dark day, it's not just the result, it's the nature of the match - starting with players like Voronin and Degan, subbing Torres and Benayoun - sure Rafa's said that Torres could've been out for a month had he stayed on, but you have to wonder if an extra 10 mins would really cause Fernando to need that much extra recovery, the Yossi decision was just undefendable tbh and that kind of stubborness irks me when it's at the expense of the team.

I've always been a fan of Rafa and i'm well aware of the crap he's had to contend with in terms of the ownership and (lack of) transfer funds; in fact i believe he could've won the league had he got his first-choice targets in the past, but taking sentimentality out of it and looking at things objectively, i feel like a few of his decisions have backfired...
Aquilani - he may well have a good career with us, but signing him this season when we needed to build on last year and with the gap left by Alonso leaving needing to be filled was a risk too big to gamble on and unfortunately it looks like that has backfired.
Johnson - a good player and i'm pleased he's a red, but when you analyse our squad depth, it makes you question whether £17m on one player was worth it.
Yossi - what does this guy have to do to get a full 90 minutes?!?!?!?! at 2-1 with a side like we had out yesterday, you do not take off the only player who has any creativity in his locker and it's not the first time.

These are just a few things that i think he's made mistakes on and he has to be culpable for his decisions. Now some people say he had one eye on Lyon and if this is the case then i'm dissapoined, but if that way of thinking is coming from above, then it's unfair to lay the bame on Rafa.

Sacking Rafa now is not something i'd agree with, it would achieve nothing...if an outstanding candidate put his interest forward then i'd consider a change in January, to give the new manager half a season to get to grips with the club and a full summer to deal with transfers, but this is an unlikely scenario. For the Liverpool job i'd still rate Rafa as one of the best candidates, there's a very scarce amount of managers who could come in to a club under these conditions and be successful so for me personally I will keep supporting Rafa and praying he can be successful(although we need a few miracles to salvage this season and it's only October!!), but if that outstanding candidate comes-a-sniffing, i'll be open to change.

So, quite depressed in light of recent events, but there's not much we can do to move forward - a takeover and investment is the only way we have any hope of lifting number 19

[DanLFC92]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

yesterday was a dark day, it's not just the result, it's the nature of the match - starting with players like Voronin and Degan, subbing Torres and Benayoun - sure Rafa's said that Torres could've been out for a month had he stayed on, but you have to wonder if an extra 10 mins would really cause Fernando to need that much extra recovery, the Yossi decision was just undefendable tbh and that kind of stubborness irks me when it's at the expense of the team.

I've always been a fan of Rafa and i'm well aware of the crap he's had to contend with in terms of the ownership and (lack of) transfer funds; in fact i believe he could've won the league had he got his first-choice targets in the past, but taking sentimentality out of it and looking at things objectively, i feel like a few of his decisions have backfired...
Aquilani - he may well have a good career with us, but signing him this season when we needed to build on last year and with the gap left by Alonso leaving needing to be filled was a risk too big to gamble on and unfortunately it looks like that has backfired.
Johnson - a good player and i'm pleased he's a red, but when you analyse our squad depth, it makes you question whether £17m on one player was worth it.
Yossi - what does this guy have to do to get a full 90 minutes?!?!?!?! at 2-1 with a side like we had out yesterday, you do not take off the only player who has any creativity in his locker and it's not the first time.

These are just a few things that i think he's made mistakes on and he has to be culpable for his decisions. Now some people say he had one eye on Lyon and if this is the case then i'm dissapoined, but if that way of thinking is coming from above, then it's unfair to lay the bame on Rafa.

Sacking Rafa now is not something i'd agree with, it would achieve nothing...if an outstanding candidate put his interest forward then i'd consider a change in January, to give the new manager half a season to get to grips with the club and a full summer to deal with transfers, but this is an unlikely scenario. For the Liverpool job i'd still rate Rafa as one of the best candidates, there's a very scarce amount of managers who could come in to a club under these conditions and be successful so for me personally I will keep supporting Rafa and praying he can be successful(although we need a few miracles to salvage this season and it's only October!!), but if that outstanding candidate comes-a-sniffing, i'll be open to change.

So, quite depressed in light of recent events, but there's not much we can do to move forward - a takeover and investment is the only way we have any hope of lifting number 19

Spot on that Forks.

Also agree with Benny above.

[Mikeredz]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

yesterday was a dark day, it's not just the result, it's the nature of the match - starting with players like Voronin and Degan, subbing Torres and Benayoun - sure Rafa's said that Torres could've been out for a month had he stayed on, but you have to wonder if an extra 10 mins would really cause Fernando to need that much extra recovery, the Yossi decision was just undefendable tbh and that kind of stubborness irks me when it's at the expense of the team.

I've always been a fan of Rafa and i'm well aware of the crap he's had to contend with in terms of the ownership and (lack of) transfer funds; in fact i believe he could've won the league had he got his first-choice targets in the past, but taking sentimentality out of it and looking at things objectively, i feel like a few of his decisions have backfired...
Aquilani - he may well have a good career with us, but signing him this season when we needed to build on last year and with the gap left by Alonso leaving needing to be filled was a risk too big to gamble on and unfortunately it looks like that has backfired.
Johnson - a good player and i'm pleased he's a red, but when you analyse our squad depth, it makes you question whether £17m on one player was worth it.
Yossi - what does this guy have to do to get a full 90 minutes?!?!?!?! at 2-1 with a side like we had out yesterday, you do not take off the only player who has any creativity in his locker and it's not the first time.

These are just a few things that i think he's made mistakes on and he has to be culpable for his decisions. Now some people say he had one eye on Lyon and if this is the case then i'm dissapoined, but if that way of thinking is coming from above, then it's unfair to lay the bame on Rafa.

Sacking Rafa now is not something i'd agree with, it would achieve nothing...if an outstanding candidate put his interest forward then i'd consider a change in January, to give the new manager half a season to get to grips with the club and a full summer to deal with transfers, but this is an unlikely scenario. For the Liverpool job i'd still rate Rafa as one of the best candidates, there's a very scarce amount of managers who could come in to a club under these conditions and be successful so for me personally I will keep supporting Rafa and praying he can be successful(although we need a few miracles to salvage this season and it's only October!!), but if that outstanding candidate comes-a-sniffing, i'll be open to change.

So, quite depressed in light of recent events, but there's not much we can do to move forward - a takeover and investment is the only way we have any hope of lifting number 19

Spot on most of that really

[liverpoolforme]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

yesterday was a dark day, it's not just the result, it's the nature of the match - starting with players like Voronin and Degan, subbing Torres and Benayoun - sure Rafa's said that Torres could've been out for a month had he stayed on, but you have to wonder if an extra 10 mins would really cause Fernando to need that much extra recovery, the Yossi decision was just undefendable tbh and that kind of stubborness irks me when it's at the expense of the team.

I've always been a fan of Rafa and i'm well aware of the crap he's had to contend with in terms of the ownership and (lack of) transfer funds; in fact i believe he could've won the league had he got his first-choice targets in the past, but taking sentimentality out of it and looking at things objectively, i feel like a few of his decisions have backfired...
Aquilani - he may well have a good career with us, but signing him this season when we needed to build on last year and with the gap left by Alonso leaving needing to be filled was a risk too big to gamble on and unfortunately it looks like that has backfired.
Johnson - a good player and i'm pleased he's a red, but when you analyse our squad depth, it makes you question whether £17m on one player was worth it.
Yossi - what does this guy have to do to get a full 90 minutes?!?!?!?! at 2-1 with a side like we had out yesterday, you do not take off the only player who has any creativity in his locker and it's not the first time.

These are just a few things that i think he's made mistakes on and he has to be culpable for his decisions. Now some people say he had one eye on Lyon and if this is the case then i'm dissapoined, but if that way of thinking is coming from above, then it's unfair to lay the bame on Rafa.

Sacking Rafa now is not something i'd agree with, it would achieve nothing...if an outstanding candidate put his interest forward then i'd consider a change in January, to give the new manager half a season to get to grips with the club and a full summer to deal with transfers, but this is an unlikely scenario. For the Liverpool job i'd still rate Rafa as one of the best candidates, there's a very scarce amount of managers who could come in to a club under these conditions and be successful so for me personally I will keep supporting Rafa and praying he can be successful(although we need a few miracles to salvage this season and it's only October!!), but if that outstanding candidate comes-a-sniffing, i'll be open to change.

So, quite depressed in light of recent events, but there's not much we can do to move forward - a takeover and investment is the only way we have any hope of lifting number 19

there is no doubt our depth is a little stretched right now but i think 10 players being out would do this to any team. as for torres being subbed he needed to come of. when it comes to fitness torres is training in pain right now! he simply couldnt continue, it is just not worth the risk but the yossi decision is a puzzler!

however with agger, skrtel, aurelio johnsson, aquilliani and hopefully fingures crossed stevie we will look a hell of a lot stronger.

[Mikeredz]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

yesterday was a dark day, it's not just the result, it's the nature of the match - starting with players like Voronin and Degan, subbing Torres and Benayoun - sure Rafa's said that Torres could've been out for a month had he stayed on, but you have to wonder if an extra 10 mins would really cause Fernando to need that much extra recovery, the Yossi decision was just undefendable tbh and that kind of stubborness irks me when it's at the expense of the team.

I've always been a fan of Rafa and i'm well aware of the crap he's had to contend with in terms of the ownership and (lack of) transfer funds; in fact i believe he could've won the league had he got his first-choice targets in the past, but taking sentimentality out of it and looking at things objectively, i feel like a few of his decisions have backfired...
Aquilani - he may well have a good career with us, but signing him this season when we needed to build on last year and with the gap left by Alonso leaving needing to be filled was a risk too big to gamble on and unfortunately it looks like that has backfired.
Johnson - a good player and i'm pleased he's a red, but when you analyse our squad depth, it makes you question whether £17m on one player was worth it.
Yossi - what does this guy have to do to get a full 90 minutes?!?!?!?! at 2-1 with a side like we had out yesterday, you do not take off the only player who has any creativity in his locker and it's not the first time.

These are just a few things that i think he's made mistakes on and he has to be culpable for his decisions. Now some people say he had one eye on Lyon and if this is the case then i'm dissapoined, but if that way of thinking is coming from above, then it's unfair to lay the bame on Rafa.

Sacking Rafa now is not something i'd agree with, it would achieve nothing...if an outstanding candidate put his interest forward then i'd consider a change in January, to give the new manager half a season to get to grips with the club and a full summer to deal with transfers, but this is an unlikely scenario. For the Liverpool job i'd still rate Rafa as one of the best candidates, there's a very scarce amount of managers who could come in to a club under these conditions and be successful so for me personally I will keep supporting Rafa and praying he can be successful(although we need a few miracles to salvage this season and it's only October!!), but if that outstanding candidate comes-a-sniffing, i'll be open to change.

So, quite depressed in light of recent events, but there's not much we can do to move forward - a takeover and investment is the only way we have any hope of lifting number 19

Just on the Yossi thing you must of seen his reaction of being sub and i heard someone say rafa wont like that he prob drop him if he does do that is that rafa servicing his ego again and what would yous all think?

[Dalglish2000]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

there is no doubt our depth is a little stretched right now but i think 10 players being out would do this to any team. as for torres being subbed he needed to come of. when it comes to fitness torres is training in pain right now! he simply couldnt continue, it is just not worth the risk but the yossi decision is a puzzerler!

however with agger, skrtel, aurelio johnsson, aquilliani and hopefully fingures crossed stevie we will look a hell of a lot stronger.

He played and survived 80 minutes of the United game and had 6 days to recover. Don't play the fitness card.

[liverpoolforme]

Originally Posted by Dalglish2000

He played and survived 80 minutes of the United game and had 6 days to recover. Don't play the fitness card.

playing in the kind of pain he is in will set his recovery time back! he cant keep playing 80/90 mins or he will never fully recover and become 100% not to mention hes at like a 30% greater risk of getting injured at the moment anyways and this number only rises the longer the game goes.

[Dalglish2000]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

playing in the kind of pain he is in will set his recovery time back! he cant keep playing 80/90 mins or he will never fully recover and become 100% not to mention hes at like a 30% greater risk of getting injured at the moment anyways and this number only rises the longer the game goes.

If he was fit enough to play through the pain against United for 80 minutes, 6 days are enough to recover.

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

there is no doubt our depth is a little stretched right now but i think 10 players being out would do this to any team. as for torres being subbed he needed to come of. when it comes to fitness torres is training in pain right now! he simply couldnt continue, it is just not worth the risk but the yossi decision is a puzzerler!

however with agger, skrtel, aurelio johnsson, aquilliani and hopefully fingures crossed stevie we will look a hell of a lot stronger.

sure we have a lot of injury problems at the mo, but that just makes the decisions to lump £17m on Glen and £20m on a player who (apparently)averages 18 games per season all the more worrying - it's the managers job to consider all these things, you can't always use bad luck and injuries as excuses, every team suffers these issues, some are just better equiped to handle it. Finishing the game with Voronin and Babel up front was a real low, a freebie flop and an £11m flop, although Babel played ok, it just highlighted our lack of depth, especially for a team hoping to build on a 2nd place finish.

Originally Posted by Mikeredz

Just on the Yossi thing you must of seen his reaction of being sub and i heard someone say rafa wont like that he prob drop him if he does do that is that rafa servicing his ego again and what would yous all think?

i haven't actually seen Yossi's reaction, i was at the game and have watched the lfc.tv highlights but they didn't show the sub. There's certainly a feeling of stubborness about the whole thing because we've seen it time and time again and I'm just totally confused about the logic of the whole thing.

[liverpoolforme]

Originally Posted by Dalglish2000

If he was fit enough to play through the pain against United for 80 minutes, 6 days are enough to recover.

no thats the point, he played alot longer than he should of against united and because he did so it set his recovery time back meaning 6 days is not enough for a full recovery hence the reason he is trainging and playing in pain at the moment. it is never as black and white as you want to see it.

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by Dalglish2000

He played and survived 80 minutes of the United game and had 6 days to recover. Don't play the fitness card.

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

playing in the kind of pain he is in will set his recovery time back! he cant keep playing 80/90 mins or he will never fully recover and become 100% not to mention hes at like a 30% greater risk of getting injured at the moment anyways and this number only rises the longer the game goes.

see i understand that Rafa has to protect Torres but at 1-1 we still neeeded to win the game for our season to have any hope and you have to wonder if 10 more minutes of playing (not neccessarily 10 mins of running) is as much of a risk as is being made out. If he starts against Lyon then i think things will be clearer

[Mikeredz]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

sure we have a lot of injury problems at the mo, but that just makes the decisions to lump £17m on Glen and £20m on a player who (apparently)averages 18 games per season all the more worrying - it's the managers job to consider all these things, you can't always use bad luck and injuries as excuses, every team suffers these issues, some are just better equiped to handle it. Finishing the game with Voronin and Babel up front was a real low, a freebie flop and an £11m flop, although Babel played ok, it just highlighted our lack of depth, especially for a team hoping to build on a 2nd place finish.



i haven't actually seen Yossi's reaction, i was at the game and have watched the lfc.tv highlights but they didn't show the sub. There's certainly a feeling of stubborness about the whole thing because we've seen it time and time again and I'm just totally confused about the logic of the whole thing.

He was saying **** about 3 times and shaking head and didn't even look rafas way.

[liverpoolforme]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

sure we have a lot of injury problems at the mo, but that just makes the decisions to lump £17m on Glen and £20m on a player who (apparently)averages 18 games per season all the more worrying - it's the managers job to consider all these things, you can't always use bad luck and injuries as excuses, every team suffers these issues, some are just better equiped to handle it. Finishing the game with Voronin and Babel up front was a real low, a freebie flop and an £11m flop, although Babel played ok, it just highlighted our lack of depth, especially for a team hoping to build on a 2nd place finish.



i haven't actually seen Yossi's reaction, i was at the game and have watched the lfc.tv highlights but they didn't show the sub. There's certainly a feeling of stubborness about the whole thing because we've seen it time and time again and I'm just totally confused about the logic of the whole thing.

i dont think man u or chelsea have had 10 players out injured or ill though. our depth is not as weak as the media make us belive.

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by Mikeredz

He was saying **** about 3 times and shaking head and didn't even look rafas way.

well, i was doing the same thing so i can't blame Yossi

we were finding it tough to break forward, Yossi was the only player who was making space and pushing forward, so to see him subbed was the equivalent of giving up on the game for me, just nonsensical

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

i dont think man u or chelsea have had 10 players out injured or ill though. our depth is not as weak as the media make us belive.

Kyriagos, Degan, Voronin, Lucas(played well of late, but imo playing Lucas and Masch together is detrimental), Babel.... this is reminiscent of Houlliers squad, you could probably make like for like comparisons.

I wish we'd held onto Sami

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

i dont think man u or chelsea have had 10 players out injured or ill though. our depth is not as weak as the media make us belive.

forgot to say... this isn't just based on yesterday but sure 10 players out is a lot

[blaze26]

exactly like reading a few seasons ago when he brought gerrard, torres, carragher off!
we probley have the strongest first 11 in the premier but anything after that well were in so much trouble its like a nightmare!
and by looks of things its going to be at least 4-6 weeks before we get to see gerrard, aquilani, torres, agger, riera, johnson, all in the same team!

huge games against lyon, brum, city any dropped points in them and were done for imo only saving grace is brum and city at home so i expect a win in both them

[liverpoolforme]

Originally Posted by ForkHandles

forgot to say... this isn't just based on yesterday but sure 10 players out is a lot

oh sure the thing is we have been awful this season no doubt, but the performence against united would and still can be our turning point! the one thing you dont want when you just beat united is 10 players out injured, this in my opinion is madness and rafa simply should not be held accountable for this.

[ForkHandles]

Originally Posted by liverpoolforme

oh sure the thing is we have been awful this season no doubt, but the performence against united would and still can be our turning point! the one thing you dont want when you just beat united is 10 players out injured, this in my opinion is madness and rafa simply should not be held accountable for this.

he has to shoulder some of the blame, you can attribute some to bad luck but not all of it